Curse

timmo567 · Aug 31, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29

The key is controlling the hits your taking. If you run into a group of 10, sit there, you will die. If you take a few hits, run back, run back in your fine.

One thing I absaloutly hated about all the henchmen is that they run away from you. Hmm, I would say, Orion seeems to be on low health, I'll run over and help out with a healing spring. When I finish casting he runs away and dies.

Xonic · Aug 31, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

As a warrior, she dies all the time. Not so on my casters. She hardly ever dies when playing them. Sort of hard to change your strategy as a warrior, since she follows the lead player, or you if you are alone, and hence ends up tanking. If you arent a W/Mo, she dies. No two ways about it.

do you use a bow to pull as warrior so you don't get more mobs than necessary?

Xonic · Aug 31, 2005, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howling Wind

You know selecting the skills on the skill bar sounds like a decent idea, I can see good benefits but the AI will need some tweaking to use skills more efficiently or rather intelligently. If its possible.

henchmen are already better than 50% of the human players.

if they are any more skillful/intelligent they'll be better than 90% of the human players, which will be a bad thing... or... a good thing?

John Bloodstone · Sep 01, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

They need to tweak the healers to stop them wasting time firing at the enemy and instead to put themselves in a position so that the player is between them and the enemy.

Whenever I get a chance to see what the healer hench are doing, 9 times out of 10 they're sat there firing at the enemy instead of healing. Useless.

Rieselle · Sep 01, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

When I was playing a warrior, in PvE with henchies I keep aware of my surroundings, especially Alesia. If she's being attacked, if I go and overlap her and attack whoever's attacking her, she usually moves out of the way after a while, whether to heal someone else or just to stop overlapping me. The monster usually switches target to me if she moves in the right direction. If not, I repeat. Also, if the monster is attacking alesia and not me, it's a good time to frenzy that monster, which usually gets its attention.

When playing with henchies, even as a warrior, you need to pay more attention and support them, rather than relying on them to support you whilst you're doing your own thing. It's probably a good lesson to learn for other times too

Jhyphi · Sep 01, 2005, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Not sure what you're talking about. Alesia and Lina are awesome. They never miss heals except when low on energy. Only problem is they value party members over that 1 important NPC who can't die or mission fails.

Bring Claude, he helps give them energy.

If you see Alesia's health dropping, run over right up to her and try to "squeeze" yourself in between her and enemy. She'll run a bit and enemy will switch to you.

Phades · Sep 01, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhyphi

Not sure what you're talking about. Alesia and Lina are awesome. They never miss heals except when low on energy. Only problem is they value party members over that 1 important NPC who can't die or mission fails.

Bring Claude, he helps give them energy.

If you see Alesia's health dropping, run over right up to her and try to "squeeze" yourself in between her and enemy. She'll run a bit and enemy will switch to you.

I dont know what you are talking about. Alesia spams more heals out of combat than in combat while im clinging on to a thread of life. If her energy was shot in combat, that wouldnt let her suddenly become full energy the moment the last creature dies and she spam casts orison 8-9 times immediately afterwards. Also, if i can run through a buff cycle or 2 stance cycles and be under half life and not see 1 heal spell out of alesia something is wrong. Lina seems to do her job fine though. Sometimes more than fine as she stacks buffs after im no longer in danger (targets are dead and moving to the next).

Bringing claude doesnt help the situation much as ive seen alesia chase his skinny rear all over the place as he can get into a life sacrifice cycle, which effectivly burns away all alesia's healing as she spam casts healing touch on him over and over and over again. All the while im stuck in combat wondering wtf is going on with the 2 green dots running in circles behind me, until claude runs into the fray to "help" me out with my energy "problem", which brings alesia in close persiut and they both promptly die. All the while thinking, great no one to heal me but myself and this blood ritual is really helping my warrior or elementalist with ether renewal active.

Javias · Sep 01, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

I seem to remember playing a game where you had a choice of fighting script for your henchmen. I don't remember exactly what they were but, they were something like:

1. Attack on sight
2. Attack when P/C attacks
3. Attack only when attacked
4. Defend only

If you could have an individual fighting script for each npc I would be a very happy little Ranger.

Red Sonya · Sep 01, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javias

I seem to remember playing a game where you had a choice of fighting script for your henchmen. I don't remember exactly what they were but, they were something like:

1. Attack on sight
2. Attack when P/C attacks
3. Attack only when attacked
4. Defend only

If you could have an individual fighting script for each npc I would be a very happy little Ranger.

Ahh Dungeon Siege origional has henchies like that. Though even they didn't follow them to a tee, but, sufficient enough in most cases. You could tell each one independently too how to handle a battle. I thought that was unique for a computer AI. Much better than Baldur's Gate henchies.

Kamatsu · Sep 01, 2005, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Well I think all they really need to do with Alesia is edit her script so that she doesn't run in front of the player and aggro everything on herself..

I have to say thats one of my biggest issues with her is that she has a terrible tendancy to run way in front of me when I'm moving around. This is especially bothersome if there is a group of enemies ahead which she aggro's by running right to the edge of my aggro circle... And yes, she's down that more time than I can think... whenever she tries that I immediantly move back trying to pull her back my way and saway from the enemy before she aggro's everything on her... works I'd say 50%.. the other 50% she aggro's everything then stands still trying to out-heal 6-8 critter's attacking her... pffft!

Yes I know how to send in Thom & Stefan to get aggro before me.. and I do that every fight... but that does *not* help if you've stopped a full aggro circle away from the enemy and Alesia decides to run ahead to the edge of your aggro circle... which usually results in her getting all the aggro.

That is my only real complaint about Alesia - apart from her stupidly standing still taking damage doing nothing .. while the rest of us are attacking.. and she has plenty of ways of moving away from the enemies.. but does she do anything? nooo.... pfft! But even thats somewhat manage-able.. but having her run in front of me constently.. .. only eway to deal with that is to run the other way and hope you can get her behind you.. pfft!

Red Sonya · Sep 01, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

do you use a bow to pull as warrior so you don't get more mobs than necessary?

I myself use a flatbow I've had since early game it's only 9-13 (no requirements) but it has the longest range and I can pull outside the radar agro range. Thus the 2 warriors rush ahead just as the mob(s) enter the agro range and me and the casters are in the rear while the two warriors kick butt. I even help heal sometimes or go rez if one dies. Been working great. When things are less intense then I change to my melee and charge in to finish off the rest.

It's all in the skill of pulling when using henchies.

If some mobs bypass the 2 warriors which is rare, then I just turn on balthazar's aura and that takes care of them without pulling off my 2 warriors from the frontal assault.

I know everyone doesn't play an mo/ or /mo as a secondary, but, well you should.

You can always change your 2ndary in a second just by jumping to one of the areas where changing your 2ndary is possible eventually. E/Mo are simply death machines I think.

Also something I rarely see in PVP is when your monk is in trouble, coming to help them. It's also something I do if Alesia is getting attacked, if you don't protect your monk, you deserve to die.

lana · Sep 01, 2005, 05:50 AM // 05:50

I'm a lot less frustrated when playing with henchies than when I quest/mission with PUGs. My primary character's a monk so I didn't have much experience with Alesia but when I started over with a necro, Alesia kept dying -_- The two monks are a good combination though (one for prot and one for healing). The one thing I noticed with Lina is she loves casting Aegis (lasts only nine seconds) when the enemies are 2134457 feet away. LOL! My guild and I usually bring Alesia along for missions while I fill in as prot monk. It works

coolsti · Sep 01, 2005, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Henchies are actually very good if you know how to use them correctly. Its important to know how they follow you, and how they react when you lure, retreat, etc. You can lure quite effectively with one human and the rest henchies - you just gotta know when to run away after getting enemy attention, and how far back to run. Takes some practice.

With Alesia and other healer/mage henchies, its important to know how they follow the human players. Alesia and Lina will stay back out of range if you do. That means they may be more difficult to keep alive if the only human player is a warrior. But if you are not a warrior, keep in mind where Alesia is in relation to the enemy. You may have to retreat or move around a bit to draw Alesia out of trouble.

Remember, playing with Alesia and similar henchies means you have to take their movements into account when you decide your battle strategy. Barging into the middle of things and staying there may be good for you if you are strong in defence or healing, but think about your henchies also!

I have tried several missions with henchies only and with human players, and I find in general things go more smoothly with henchies. I can control the henchies in most cases, and so have control of which mobs I take on, when I retreat, lure, etc. With humans, this seems next to impossible (unless its a good team).

However, I must admit I like better playing with humans if the team is nice, friendly, and has some humor ;-)

Red Sonya · Sep 01, 2005, 12:21 PM // 12:21

The problem I have with human groups these days is everybody just seems to want to run or if you do the bonus then the person that wanted to do the bonus just quits on you cause he got what he was after. Same with capping groups, many buttholes will quit as soon as they get their elite skill. This makes grouping with humans bogus many times.

Solution: Give experience for completing the same mission if you have completed the game already. Give bonus experience for killing boss mobs in after ascended areas. Most elite captures that are hard come after ascension. If they want to streamline the game then these would be two ways to do it and possibly keep teams intact and together longer if there's a reward for everyone for every part of the mission or adventure like skill capping. If you could get 1000 experience points for every boss mob you killed after you finished the game wouldn't you stay in a group longer?

Numa Pompilius · Sep 01, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

1) To all: there is no way in hell to get Alesia to not tank if you're a warrior and actually do melee combat. She _will_ rush into melee to heal you. If you try to body block she'll run around you. And then stand there firing her piddly wand at point blank range. You can almost hear the minotaurs go "wtf?! omg!!! lolololol!!!1" before they kill her. Again.
Yes, it sometimes helps to run in between Alesia and the monster. About 1 time in 5 Alesia will then run in a random direction, which MAY get her out of harms way. Otherwise your best bet is to rig the mobs priorities by putting an enchantment on Alesia (they'll then target Orion, Claude, or maybe, if you're lucky, you).

Once you got Lina it's no longer a problem, as lina spams protective spells & enchantments. Alesia PLUS Lina is actually a fairly good tag-team.

Red Sonya: start a group and advertise that you a) don't want to rush but will take your time exploring, b) welcome any builds, and c) are doing mission|bonus|both and don't want any quitters. Engage all who reply in a short discussion about what you intend to do, to judge if they're good recruits. And don't accept anyone who replies along the lines of 'u doin miss 2?'. It'll take a bit longer to get a group together, but you've then done what you can to avoid the asshats.

Pauci sed boni.

coolsti · Sep 01, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

To Numa Pompilius: regarding Alesia with a one human as warrior only party, I was wondering if a tactic would be to run in to a mob, pound on somebody til dead, then back off, run in again, etc. I haven't played warrior yet, but maybe that would keep Alesia moving?

To Red Sonya: know what you mean. The real problem is in finding a good group that won't be selfish and egoistic, and the only real way to try to do that is to advertise for it when looking for a group. I rarely join a group; these days I only form a group, and I advertise wildly for "team players only, no bullies, no egoists" etc. etc. There is no guarantee that this will give you only good players. But there is a higher chance, as other players that want what you want (e.g. doing a bonus AND finishing the mission) are more likely to ask to join your party.

I play a lot with just henchies because often I am tired of the effort of getting a good group together. But I most enjoy playing with humans when the group is good. The satisfaction is enormous when it clicks! And its even funny if the good members of the group begin to mob the one or two idiots.

I once formed a party of "FOW newbies" (being one myself) but the monk we got a hold of apparently didn't realise this. After some time struggling down there our monk began to voice his dissatisfaction with "---- group" etc. Well, I just told him to leave if he didn't like the group, and he did, leaving us without a monk. To my happiness and surprise, the rest of the group thanked me for that instead of kicking me in the butt for losing our monk!

Phades · Sep 01, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

To Numa Pompilius: regarding Alesia with a one human as warrior only party, I was wondering if a tactic would be to run in to a mob, pound on somebody til dead, then back off, run in again, etc. I haven't played warrior yet, but maybe that would keep Alesia moving?

There is no guarentee that alesia will move once she is stuck in melee combat. Sometimes she will, other times she spam heals and doesnt budge or uses wand attacks and dies. There is also no guarentee that she will move if you try to do similar things to "pull" her out of an aoe spell attack (she will try to chain cast through things like malestorm, meteor shower, concussion, choking gas ect). She has a assist the part priority over follow the player. If you are on the edge of death and the only one injured, she tends to follow you more responsivly (illusion of weakness works nice to create that situation). Most of the time though she will either die no matter what you do in terms of positioning or drag every monster in creation all the way back to where you are, because she stops to heal, and doesnt change the previous situation at all..

Numa Pompilius · Sep 01, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

To Numa Pompilius: regarding Alesia with a one human as warrior only party, I was wondering if a tactic would be to run in to a mob, pound on somebody til dead, then back off, run in again, etc. I haven't played warrior yet, but maybe that would keep Alesia moving?

Well, in a way - it'd mean that I'd be drawing the mob to the other casters (who tend to keep back), so the aggro would likely be divided over Alesia AND Claude or Orion. Basically it might save Alesia, but at the cost of Claude.

Normally I try to get the monsters trained on me (e.g. by standing by a corner they have to pass), and really don't want to move out of my chosen position.

I do note, however, that since the last update yesterday, Alesia seems to prefer healing breeze over healing touch, so perhaps the problem has been fixed.

EDIT: Oh, and good job of kicking that monk!

Rook Parcade · Sep 01, 2005, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bloodstone

They need to tweak the healers to stop them wasting time firing at the enemy and instead to put themselves in a position so that the player is between them and the enemy.

Whenever I get a chance to see what the healer hench are doing, 9 times out of 10 they're sat there firing at the enemy instead of healing. Useless.

I'm beginning to wonder how many of the people in this thread are stuck with alesia because they've pissed off to many player monks?

Yes, monks are allowed to wave our wands at enemies, it's the only fun we get!

Xonic · Sep 01, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javias

I seem to remember playing a game where you had a choice of fighting script for your henchmen. I don't remember exactly what they were but, they were something like:

1. Attack on sight
2. Attack when P/C attacks
3. Attack only when attacked
4. Defend only

If you could have an individual fighting script for each npc I would be a very happy little Ranger.

Baldur's Gate II and I think Neverwinter Nights?